This wiki is a XML full dump clone of "Heroes Wiki", the main wiki about the Heroes saga that has been shut down permanently since June 1, 2020. The purpose of this wiki is to keep online an exhaustive and accurate database about the franchise.

Category talk:Plot Points/Archive 1

From Heroes Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
  • Should plot points have episodic sections like Characters do with "Character History"? If Yes, is "Plot History" with episode references a decent name for it? --Orne 17:55, 8 November 2006 (EST)
  • Should Nathan's election be added as a plot point? I would suggest "The campaign" --Orne 18:33, 8 November 2006 (EST)
    • Or better yet, "Nathan's campaign" since it appears so often in search --Orne 18:35, 8 November 2006 (EST)
      • Nathan's campaign sounds like a good article. There's plenty to detail, what with Linderman's money, the event where he " outs" Peter as depressive, and the brunch. Personally, I've been avoiding episodic sections on the plot points so far because most of them have been advancing so slowly, but it might not hurt to do it that way now that we have more information on a lot of them. Other opinions?--Hardvice (talk) 19:03, 8 November 2006 (EST)
      • Yeah I think episodic sections would be helpful.Dadadave 19:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)
  • I also wonder about whether some sort of timeline would be useful though with Hiro's time traveling I'm not sure how to put that together. I am curious the best way to include all that we've seen that will happen on November 8th and how time travel works in the Heroes universe. For example in the article on Nathan's campaign how do we handle him winning it? A possible future outcome? The first future outcome?Dadadave 19:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)
    • I'm trying to do it User:Orne/Timeline here, using "alternate future". I believe that we've seen that Hiro 'can' change the future, because the Ando in that reality had not seen Hiro in 5 weeks, yet Ando is now traveling with Hiro on a cross country journey. --Orne 12:55, 17 November 2006 (EST)
  • Also, does every Plot Point really have to appear on the Portal Gallery? I think some of them, like 'lastvegasniki', or 'Mr. Muggles' are perfectly fine just keeping in the "Articles in Category" section. Comments? --Orne 12:55, 17 November 2006 (EST)
    • I'm beginning to dislike the idea of a portal page for plot points overall. Unless we cut it down to, say, 8-12 or so, it's just too big and makes it hard to get to the category list. Anyone else?--Hardvice (talk) 18:20, 1 December 2006 (EST)
      • Can we limit the gallery to a top 12 or something (3 rows of 4)? Things like The Missing Painting aren't so missing anymore, not to mention The Money has been found, D.L. knows Jessica killed his gang so The Skull Ring isn't as significant... --Orne 18:41, 1 December 2006 (EST)
        • I like a 3x4 idea, and would be so happy to get rid of some of these pics from the gallery - it ends up looking like a junk drawer: you get what you need, but you have to rifle through a lot of crap ... I'm all for creating a new category, and keeping "Plot Points" really limited to plot points. I don't have a suggestion for the name of a "catch-all" category, though. Maybe just something like "Miscellaneous?" - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:39, 1 December 2006 (EST)
          • I think the 12 you chose, Hardvice, are great choices. And it looks so much cleaner. Plus, the other 39 or whaterver plot points are listed below - it's just the main 12 pictured. My only suggestion for change: replace The Message with Sanjog's file. Other than that, looks great! - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:56, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Standarize Plot Point image size?

It bugs me that Portal:Plot Points is a gallery and the rest are tables. The only way we can fix this is to standardize the image size for plot points (at least those that are in the gallery, but it would be better to do all of them if we do any—there are only 44, so it wouldn't be much of a chore). This raises a few questions:

  1. Should we have a sidebar for plot points? Pretty much everything else has one by now.
  2. What on Earth would go in the sidebar? First appearance? Related characters? Just the image and caption?
  3. Can we subcat them somehow, like we did for category:Places?

Any ideas, or is this better left alone?--Hardvice (talk) 13:45, 19 December 2006 (EST)

  • First, let me say how much I despise "Plot Points". Ugh, there is no easy solution. In the end, Plot Points becomes a receptacle for uncategorizable topics. It may as well be called "Everything Else" or "Random Sh.." Any-hoo, this ain't no time for a rant. On to my (constructive) thoughts about the above questions...
  1. I'm not sure a sidebar would be the best idea, just because everything is so diverse. You could group a few points together and do a cool sidebar for those, but I don't have any concrete ideas. My thought is to leave it for now, and let's create a sidebar when we need one, rather than try to come up with a "standard" for the stinkin' plot points.
  2. Um, I think I answered that above. Oops... But actually there this little nagging thing inside me that I would love to see on the site. You mentioned "Related characters", which reminded me of character interactions. (I know it's not really what you were talking about, but we're doing associative thinking, here - go with me). Anyway, I wanted an article, maybe, called "Character Connections" or "Character Relations" showing how characters are, well, connected and related. (See Lostpedia's character relations.) I know I'm way off topic here, and I don't have anything concrete to offer, just a thought about somehow showing character connections, especially in light of what Tim Kring said in an interview, that these characters will never form a "Justice League" - they will always remain separate but connected. I like the idea of chronicling their interactions. (Linderman's connections to everybody are especially intriguing.)
  3. I think subcats are a great idea. Let me mull that over a bit.

Hope my mental download helped a bit. I know I sometimes think a bit abstractly. Let's see what others have to say. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:07, 20 December 2006 (EST)

    • I agree that "plot points" is kind of becoming the hole where Articles Go To Die. We could categorize them all (things like "Publications", "Events", etc.) That's what Memory Alpha does for Star Trek; they have about a billion categories which get as specific as, like, "Romulan Alcoholic Beverages" and the like. This is probably the best answer, since it solves all problems at once (sidebars can be customized to the category, the portal becomes manageable, etc.) but unfortunately it seems like right now the categories would either be too generic or would have one or two articles. That's not necessarily a problem ... Animals only has two and we're all fine with that. (Hmm, that reminds me ... I need to add the animals to Portal:Characters).

      On an unrelated note (see? I think like you think!), we probably need to do a little category cleanup anyway. I'd like to change people to characters, move the cast and crew out, split them into cast (and maybe cast into main, supporting, recurring, and guest) and crew (maybe split into graphic novels and series). Just seems like it would help separate the real-world articles from the Heroes-world articles, and "characters" is more flexible than "people" (see: Animals, Uluru).

      I think I'll work up a chart with some ideas for breaking plot points into usable categories now.--Hardvice (talk) 21:20, 20 December 2006 (EST)
      • Yes, yes, yes. Great ideas. Spot on. Okay, the category-splitting seems a bit daunting to me, but doable. I totally agree with you on the cast and crew splits (I think we had that conversation before, and it's been on my to do list forever, but I'm lazy), and calling the characters "people" has been bugging me since about day 2. Great ideas. Let me know what you're thinking of for the category breakdowns. PS, can we have a category called "Romulan Alcoholic Beverages" too? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:54, 20 December 2006 (EST)
        • Changing people to characters will probably be worse than the plot points. We can move the category itself, but we have to manually update all the articles and there's about 80 of them, vs. 45 plot points. I tried to see how Lostpedia has the portals (I've been avoiding LP since I have season 1 coming from Netflix) but they are currently borked.--Hardvice (talk) 22:00, 20 December 2006 (EST)
          • Are you saying you've never seen Lost? Huh? ... Good point on the work to be done. But changing links is rote, figuring out new categories is brainwork.
            • Yes. I've finally gotten sick of hearing "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU OF ALL PEOPLE DON'T WATCH LOST!!1!!!1!" and am renting it as we speak.--Hardvice (talk) 23:04, 20 December 2006 (EST)
        • Next question: when we split "plot points", do we make the new cats subcats and keep "plot points", or do we make them all subcats of Category:Heroes? Some of them aren't really "plot points" in any meaningful sense of the phrase.--Hardvice (talk) 22:02, 20 December 2006 (EST)
          • I say get rid of plot points altogether. They don't all make sense to be subcats, so it's an unnecessary category to keep. If we find that the Heroes category is getting unwieldy, we can change. Based on the cat suggestions below, I think we'll be fine. I would drop PP for good. (heh.) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:42, 20 December 2006 (EST)
            • It's possible some of the new cats can be subcats of one another (media and publications (and maybe artwork) came to mind to me, too). Now that I've created a navbar for top-level portals I'm suddenly and suspiciously loathe to create top-level categories (go figure). But my instinct is to also axe plot points.--Hardvice (talk) 23:04, 20 December 2006 (EST)
              • I say cut the PP. Let's see if anybody else wants to weigh in (that is, if they can figure out this mess of a discussion we're having...) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:11, 20 December 2006 (EST)
            • I'm responding to myself - just like in life. Okay, the problem with not having a "Plot Points" category is that the portal navs that you've been working on are going to be very cluttered when you have a portal for every one of those categories. Or am I misthinking? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:52, 20 December 2006 (EST)
              • I should read responses before I type, huh?--Hardvice (talk) 23:04, 20 December 2006 (EST)
              • One solution is to break PP into a couple big cats, then subcat as needed:
Events -- Events, Sylar's murders
Items -- Weapons, Research, Media (I originally meant more like tapes, cds, rather than media outlets), Publications, Artwork, Money
Symbols -- Symbols

We can probably scrap predictions: Isaac's paintings can go in "Artwork", Prophecy can go in Powers, and Peter's visions can go in Events (in a pinch)

All told, this makes for only a net +2 top-level cats after you lose Plot Points.--Hardvice (talk) 23:13, 20 December 2006 (EST)

This will be really great, I think. I like Sylar's murders (Sylar's crimes, maybe, to be more general) under events, and I think dropping predictions is a good idea. That's the whole prophecy article, anyway. I like your distinctions for Isaac's artwork and prophecy; the visions work under events, too. (I don't know if I would really consider them prophecies, anyway - they're a bit more abstract. But moot point.) This will be Lost-rrific — oh, sorry, you didn't get that reference, did you? heh heh. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:41, 20 December 2006 (EST)

Suggestions for New Cats

Plot Point Possible New Cats
9th Wonders! Publication, Artwork
Activating Evolution Publications, Research
The algorithm Research
Brain removal ?
Chandra's journal Objects, Research
Charlie's birthday party Events
Claire's tape Media
The eclipse Events
Explosion Events, Predictions
The Genesis Files Research
Hiro's sword Objects
Isaac's paintings Artwork, Predictions
The key Objects, Research
Lasvegasniki.com Media
Linderman's prosecution Events?
Linderman's tape Media
The list Research
The map Research
The mark Symbols
The message ?
Micah's tuition ?
The money objects
Nathan's accident events
Nathan's campaign events
New York Chronicle Publications
New York Journal Publications
Newspaper clipping (Jackie) Publications
Niki's tape Media
Patient Zero Research
Peter's visions Predictions, Events?
Power absorption ? (maybe we should put it in "powers", even though it's not itself a power)
Prophecy Predictions, Artwork? (also we should pick a new format. Both have problems, but I think I prefer Orne's at this point.)
Rift ? (maybe we need something abstract, like "concepts" or "time travel")
Sanjog's file Research
Skull ring Objects
The Sylar tape Media
Sylar's message Media
Sylar's victims uh...we can maybe move it to "List of Sylar's victims and call it a day :)
Sylar's watch Objects
The symbol Symbols
The train wreck Events
Uluru Big Scary Monsters (or maybe "Characters")

Some thoughts:

  • First, great job. I don't konw if that was easy or not, but it seemed daunting to me, and you really knocked it out of the ballpark (yes, that's the extent of my sports knowledge).
  • Research, artwork, and events (and some others) seem like very natural choices, and take care of most of the articles. Well done.
  • Would Publications be a subcat of Media?
  • Sylar's victims & Brain removal (& Power Absorption): these should go into a category together. Maybe "Murder"? Something less specific like "Bloodshed"? Crimes? (I'm starting to think I'm being a bit hokey.) Okay, back to basics - what about a category called "Sylar's victims", and put all 3 articles in that category?
  • Linderman's prosecution could go under the already existing "Linderman's Organization" and leave it at that. (Note: I actually think we should get rid of Linderman's Organization as a category, and make it into a series bar, like we did with Jessica's victims. That doesn't help the Linderman's Prosecution problem, but that's another story.)
  • The Message - no idea
  • Micah's tuition - maybe have a category called Money (or better, Finances) and put in Micah's tuition, The money, and a few others that could be written.
  • Power absorption is already under Powers.
  • If we put Power absorption under Powers, I think Rift could go there too - it's kind of a result of a power.
  • Uluru should be artwork. He's only appeared in dreams and in art - the day that he comes and eats Sanjog or marries Simone (can you picture the wedding?) is when we should call him a character. But maybe I'm wrong.
  • The Message - okay, going back to this one (yes, I know I could just type up where I already have it, but I'm being difficult). I'm thinking maybe Predictions, if we go with the categories listed. My other much more abstract idea is this: the shows follow episode arcs - Tim Kring has confirmed this (I could find sources if needed). He called the first four episodes "Ordinary people discovering extraordinary abilities". The next arc would be eps 5 - 11: "Save the cheerleader, save the world". The next set will be "Are you on the list?" Now, this is somewhat speculative - it's going off things Tim Kring has said, and is based on the way NBC promotes the show. But maybe we could have a category called "Arcs"? I don't know. What do you think? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:32, 20 December 2006 (EST)
    • I like "Sylar's victims" as a cat more than "Linderman's organization" (or HRG's organization, which we should also kill as a cat).
    • Finances makes for kind of a strange category, but it def. works.
      • Maybe under a different name? Filthy Lucre?
    • Agree re: Uluru. I was being an ass I think.
    • Rift under powers seems fine to me. It's related to powers. We should adjust the cat description for that, and maybe put Prophecy under (just) powers as well
    • I like the idea of story arc articles, but I'm not sure that's the same as The message. Is it?
      • Yeah, I think I was just pontificating on somehow acknowledging story arcs. Articles work; I agree that a category doesn't. And The Message doesn't fit right, you're correct. I still don't know where it fits. Maybe we should make a "Romulan Alcoholic Beverages"-like category, and have a category called simply "Messages"? Seems superfuous to me, but it works. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:14, 20 December 2006 (EST)
    • Linderman's prosecution could go under Law enforcement even if we hose Linderman's organization.--Hardvice (talk) 23:04, 20 December 2006 (EST)
Retrieved from "https://heroeswiki.ddns.net/index.php?title=Category_talk:Plot_Points/Archive_1&oldid=210360"