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Episode talk:Five Years Gone
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Name Change
The name of this episode changed to "Five Years Gone" (http://www.herosite.net/)
- It's discussed on the Talk:Spoiler:String Theory page--Bob 16:52, 12 April 2007 (EDT)
Future Characters
- I think the best way to handle them is going to be to add articles for those who actually appear as characters and add Notes to the current articles for those who are merely mentioned, but that's just me.--Hardvice (talk) 22:43, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
- I agree. There's enough to make an article for each of the Future Characters. Good idea about the Notes. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:14, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
- I added a Note to Nathan Petrelli. He should be the worst of them, and it seems sufficient to me. In the meantime, I copied some edits others made into Future Sylar and Future Peter, and I like the way they're coming along, too.--Hardvice (talk) 23:20, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
- Sections for Five Years Gone have been added and removed multiple times on the pages of most of the character who have future versions. I think we should keep the Five Years Gone section with "See [[Character (future)]]". This would make it so as you are going through the history, you can find the the information about them in episodic order (the see also is hard to find, it should be kept though). It will also make it so people don't keep adding their future histories. -Lөvөl 13:41, 3 May 2007 (EDT) (hmmm that was kind of weird, I was adding a new section and when I saved, my connection went out, when I came back it had replaced the page. Thanks FrenchFlo -Lөvөl 13:53, 3 May 2007 (EDT))
- A link certainly belongs on the main timeline character's page, but it doesn't belong in Character History. First off, except for unseen (and formerly unseen) characters, the list of episodes under Character History matches the character's appearances. Second, the section is titled "Character History". It's a history of events which happen to the character. The events that happen to Future Peter do not happen to present-day Peter, nor should we imply (by adding a link within the character history section) that they will. The whole point in separating the characters is to prevent confusion as to what happens in the present vs. what happens in the future (think how muddled Sylar's infobox was before the split: Nathan Petrelli as an alias, future stolen powers listed with present-day powers, etc.). I maintain that Notes or See Also is the appropriate place to link to events that happen to a different version of the character. If that is insufficient, then I'd propose a separate top level section called "Alternate timelines" or the like--outside the character history section--to house either such a link or a brief description or both. If people continue to add character histories for 5YG, we can continue to remove them, or if that becomes problematic, add a commented out note explaining the difference between Peter Petrelli and Peter Petrelli (future). There's no reason to compromise the quality of our articles merely because people can't find the right place to add information.--Hardvice (talk) 13:55, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
- Sections for Five Years Gone have been added and removed multiple times on the pages of most of the character who have future versions. I think we should keep the Five Years Gone section with "See [[Character (future)]]". This would make it so as you are going through the history, you can find the the information about them in episodic order (the see also is hard to find, it should be kept though). It will also make it so people don't keep adding their future histories. -Lөvөl 13:41, 3 May 2007 (EDT) (hmmm that was kind of weird, I was adding a new section and when I saved, my connection went out, when I came back it had replaced the page. Thanks FrenchFlo -Lөvөl 13:53, 3 May 2007 (EDT))
- I added a Note to Nathan Petrelli. He should be the worst of them, and it seems sufficient to me. In the meantime, I copied some edits others made into Future Sylar and Future Peter, and I like the way they're coming along, too.--Hardvice (talk) 23:20, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
- I agree. There's enough to make an article for each of the Future Characters. Good idea about the Notes. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:14, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
Woman behind desk
Who was the woman behind Mr. Bennett's desk in this episode? It looked like Angela Petrelli to me but the more I think about it, it could be Hana as well.--The Empath 23:10, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
- That was Hana. She was in the earlier scene with the little boy.--Hardvice (talk) 23:11, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
Well now I just want to die. Why Hana, Why!? :'-( --The Empath 23:21, 30 April 2007 (EDT)
Timeline mashup
- After watching this episode a second time, the best I can figure is we are watching some kind of mashup of the timelines when Claire is and isn't killed by Sylar. Peter's scar should be gone if Claire was saved, and Future Hiro should not be surprised that our Hiro travels back in time if he had already experienced it. However, Claire is still alive. Nikki implies that D.L. died during the bomb, but Hiro says he turned D.L. over to Bennett, who handed him over to SylarasNathan. Ug. Maybe I'm just thinking about this too hard... but there are a lot of timeline holes in this episode. Awesome o watch though anyway. --Fcphantom 00:18, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Was Niki implying that D.L. died in the explosion? When Peter tells her he was the bomb, he only mentions Micah. I think that she knows D.L. died, though doesn't know the real truth (Sylar giving him the slice and dice). I dunno; this episode gives me headaches. :-) --ZyberGoat 12:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- It's all one coherent possible future timeline. Alright to clear it up: Claire didn't die (until later in the ep at least, obviously). Peter exploded, but Sylar used Candace's power to fool the others into thinking it was Sylar himself. Thus Future Hiro had actually stabbed Peter thinking him to be Sylar. When Peter regenerated the wound, Future Hiro had presumed Sylar had stolen Claire's regeneration. Thus, "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World," (a presumption by Alternate Future Hiro) is actually incorrect. Saving Claire did not prevent Sylar from using Candace's power to survive. Future Peter's scar is due to some other unexplained factor. It's not clear exactly how Micah or D.L. died, or whether Nikki and Peter's perception of how it happened is correct. But Future Sylar demonstrates that he did steal D.L.'s phasing. --Glue 02:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Peter says "I killed Micah." But I'm wondering if he's only assuming he did. Peter can't possibly know everyone he killed, only perhaps thos who were within visual range at the time he goes off. So in order for him to know this, we have to accept that Micah was there without Nikki/Jessica or D.L., which is possible since he was last seen with Linderman... but was Linderman taking Micah to NY or Las Vegas? Seems like a bit of a stretch to put them in NY during an catastrophic event that Linderman knows quite well is imminent.--Joedu 22:44, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Interesting theory, but I don't think that's the case. In the original future (Future Hiro's), Sylar really was the bomb, but he regenerated because he had Claire's power. In the future that Hiro and Ando jump into, though, Peter became the bomb, and Nathan pawned the disaster on Sylar (which likely infuriated him, leading him to kill Nathan and take his place). I think that when Future Hiro brought specials to Bennet, Bennet turned over the "dangerous ones" to Matt, who in turn sent them to the president (Sylar-as-Nathan), who then killed them. But there's nothing proving that Sylar took Candace's power before the explosion. --ZyberGoat 12:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Hmm.. I think the problem with that explanation is that it's creating too many separate future lines (of course, the fact that they created an interloper Future Hiro intruding into the present started that all in the first place but..). If what you say is the case, then we would have two different future Hiros -- the original one who intruded and spoke with Peter on the subway, and a new one (who looks exactly the same) that is from an alteration of Future Hiro's timeline. I think this -- creating multiple slight variations of futures -- is one of the reasons everyone is giving themselves so many headaches. I put forward the above explanation as a simpler one that doesn't require two slightly different future timelines. Nothing establishes that Future Sylar was ever the exploding man in the Future timeline or that he ever killed Claire (prior to the explosion). This has been a working assumption by viewers as the simplest explanation, and based on Future Hiro's belief of what happened. But Future Hiro has been shown to have been completely unaware of Sylar's survival, as were all the other future heroes. --Glue 13:31, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- There would not necessarily be more then one future Hiro, instead of creating a new possible future, it could be changing it (supported by the changes made by Hiro trying to save Charlie) like in the movie Frequency. -Lөvөl 14:32, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- Hmm.. I think the problem with that explanation is that it's creating too many separate future lines (of course, the fact that they created an interloper Future Hiro intruding into the present started that all in the first place but..). If what you say is the case, then we would have two different future Hiros -- the original one who intruded and spoke with Peter on the subway, and a new one (who looks exactly the same) that is from an alteration of Future Hiro's timeline. I think this -- creating multiple slight variations of futures -- is one of the reasons everyone is giving themselves so many headaches. I put forward the above explanation as a simpler one that doesn't require two slightly different future timelines. Nothing establishes that Future Sylar was ever the exploding man in the Future timeline or that he ever killed Claire (prior to the explosion). This has been a working assumption by viewers as the simplest explanation, and based on Future Hiro's belief of what happened. But Future Hiro has been shown to have been completely unaware of Sylar's survival, as were all the other future heroes. --Glue 13:31, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Given that we could assume that Linderman is using Micah to rig the elections after Hana stuffed his previous plans, It seems quite plausible that Micah be in NY so soon after the elections. unfalln 13:04, 2 May 2007 (AEST)
- Interesting theory, but I don't think that's the case. In the original future (Future Hiro's), Sylar really was the bomb, but he regenerated because he had Claire's power. In the future that Hiro and Ando jump into, though, Peter became the bomb, and Nathan pawned the disaster on Sylar (which likely infuriated him, leading him to kill Nathan and take his place). I think that when Future Hiro brought specials to Bennet, Bennet turned over the "dangerous ones" to Matt, who in turn sent them to the president (Sylar-as-Nathan), who then killed them. But there's nothing proving that Sylar took Candace's power before the explosion. --ZyberGoat 12:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Was Niki implying that D.L. died in the explosion? When Peter tells her he was the bomb, he only mentions Micah. I think that she knows D.L. died, though doesn't know the real truth (Sylar giving him the slice and dice). I dunno; this episode gives me headaches. :-) --ZyberGoat 12:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Apparently, the writers have a reason why Future Peter has the scar despite having Claire's power. They talk in an interview (don't recall which) about how NBC keeps giving them grief about it, but they assure them there's a reason for it.--Hardvice (talk) 00:27, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- My thought on this is that at some point, Hiro will impale Peter across the face with the sword, and it will knock Peter unconscious. Peter can empathetically mimic Claires healing ability, but he has to be conscious to think about it to get it to work; therefore he can't auto-heal like she can without thinking about it. While he is unconscious, and before he bleeds-out, someone will heal Peter's face...either cauterizing it with heat, or perhaps a healer other than Peter will close the wound, leaving the scar. When Peter wakes up, he has been healed by someone else, and doesn't really have anything to heal from, so the scar remains. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 11:43 (EST)
- I've also heard a theory that Molly Walker's power--not yet emerged in Don't Look Back--is the ability to block powers (like the Haitian, but more complete), and that she's present when Peter gets cut.--Hardvice (talk) 11:59, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- That would be frickin' awesome! I mean, bad-ass power, but bestowing it on an innocent-looking girl? That's got showdown written all over it. --ZyberGoat 12:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- It would explain why she's the only one who can stop Sylar. But it would be more bad-ass if her power was to turn TV characters into other characters played by the same actor, and she turned Sylar into Sasan from So NoTORIous, and that's how they defeat him. Then she could turn Angela into a Klingon and Kaito into Sulu and they could slug it out and ... what was I saying?--Hardvice (talk) 13:09, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Okay, since everyone else seems to be weighing in on the whole altered timelines debate, I guess I might as well toss my two cents in. While there is certainly one major difference in that Claire is still alive after Hiro's "Save the cheerleader" message, I am not convinced that anything else has changed. For example, everyone is assuming that Sylar was originally the source of the explosion. The only reason we "know" that is because future Hiro says so. However, unless he watched him explode, which I find to be a bit unlikely, the only way he would know would be the official government story that it was Sylar, which could have always been a government conver-up to protect Peter. So, while that's pretty much just conjecture, I still think there is enough room for doubt regarding the subject to avoid putting it down as a definite change in the timeline. Joser Kyind 16:55, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Why is it such a problem to think about alternate timelines? the timeline we landed in for this episode is simply because Claire had been saved (therefore Sylar didn't get regen powers) but Hiro, as he had transported to the future, hadn't yet stabbed Sylar. My opinions are a bit wavering on how the bomb is stopped after all this, but remembering back to Peter's dream I would suspect that Sylar already had Candice's powers and was acting like Nathan (ie. the one that walks over to talk to Peter while he's about to explode, perhaps using some sort of power amplification or something). On another note, I find it easier to understand that they could stop the bomb now that Hiro has Ando's death as motivation instead of the bomb itself. unfalln 11:57, 2 May 2007 (AEST)
- Given that Peter's dream includes (dead) Isaac and (dead) Simone (to say nothing of Cop Matt and Cheerleader Claire), I can't for the life of me figure out why people are so worried about reconciling it with reality. Sometimes a dream is just a dream; not every element of it has to be literally true, even if it did warn Peter that he's potentially the cause of the explosion.--Hardvice (talk) 14:00, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- Why is it such a problem to think about alternate timelines? the timeline we landed in for this episode is simply because Claire had been saved (therefore Sylar didn't get regen powers) but Hiro, as he had transported to the future, hadn't yet stabbed Sylar. My opinions are a bit wavering on how the bomb is stopped after all this, but remembering back to Peter's dream I would suspect that Sylar already had Candice's powers and was acting like Nathan (ie. the one that walks over to talk to Peter while he's about to explode, perhaps using some sort of power amplification or something). On another note, I find it easier to understand that they could stop the bomb now that Hiro has Ando's death as motivation instead of the bomb itself. unfalln 11:57, 2 May 2007 (AEST)
- Okay, since everyone else seems to be weighing in on the whole altered timelines debate, I guess I might as well toss my two cents in. While there is certainly one major difference in that Claire is still alive after Hiro's "Save the cheerleader" message, I am not convinced that anything else has changed. For example, everyone is assuming that Sylar was originally the source of the explosion. The only reason we "know" that is because future Hiro says so. However, unless he watched him explode, which I find to be a bit unlikely, the only way he would know would be the official government story that it was Sylar, which could have always been a government conver-up to protect Peter. So, while that's pretty much just conjecture, I still think there is enough room for doubt regarding the subject to avoid putting it down as a definite change in the timeline. Joser Kyind 16:55, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- It would explain why she's the only one who can stop Sylar. But it would be more bad-ass if her power was to turn TV characters into other characters played by the same actor, and she turned Sylar into Sasan from So NoTORIous, and that's how they defeat him. Then she could turn Angela into a Klingon and Kaito into Sulu and they could slug it out and ... what was I saying?--Hardvice (talk) 13:09, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- That would be frickin' awesome! I mean, bad-ass power, but bestowing it on an innocent-looking girl? That's got showdown written all over it. --ZyberGoat 12:54, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- A small point, but Peter can clearly use his healing when unconscious. After all, he managed to recover from being 'dead'. --Havoc 14:57, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- I've also heard a theory that Molly Walker's power--not yet emerged in Don't Look Back--is the ability to block powers (like the Haitian, but more complete), and that she's present when Peter gets cut.--Hardvice (talk) 11:59, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- My thought on this is that at some point, Hiro will impale Peter across the face with the sword, and it will knock Peter unconscious. Peter can empathetically mimic Claires healing ability, but he has to be conscious to think about it to get it to work; therefore he can't auto-heal like she can without thinking about it. While he is unconscious, and before he bleeds-out, someone will heal Peter's face...either cauterizing it with heat, or perhaps a healer other than Peter will close the wound, leaving the scar. When Peter wakes up, he has been healed by someone else, and doesn't really have anything to heal from, so the scar remains. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 11:43 (EST)
Minor Characters
- So my Tivo cut off right after "To Be Continued" came up. Does anybody have the closing credits? We need names or descriptions for a couple minor characters (there aren't many with speaking/significant parts ... the little boy and his family at Primatech and the bartender at Niki's casino are the only ones that come to mind off the top of my head.)--Hardvice (talk) 01:05, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- OK, the family of the evolved human boy is credited as mom, dad, and son. Not too helpful. We should probably list them under their assumed names then (Mr. and Mrs. Crane -- not sure what to call the kid.)--Hardvice (talk) 10:24, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Hopefully better than red dot boy--Bob 10:26, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- I suppose we could call him "young evolved human", but that might be too vague. Heroe!(talk) 10:35, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- "Crane boy" sounds a bit like a super hero name (he should team up with Tiger Lass for a kung-fu book), but it's probably our best choice.
- If the closing credits said "mom, dad, and son" where are you guys getting the "Mr & Mrs Crane" from? While 'red-dot boy' may sound unspecific and a little silly, it is probably the most easily recognizable name for him that the majority of people would be able to associate him to. For 'deoxygenation boy' however, wouldn't 'middleschool boy from Santa Cruz' be specific enough until more is revealed later? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 11:48 (EST)
- Hana tells them their new identities: they will be the Cranes, from Boise, Idaho. As for the middle school boy, I doubt he merits mention anywhere but the episode article. He doesn't appear, is barely mentioned, and exists five years in the future.--Hardvice (talk) 11:56, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- However, the fact that he is an evolved human with a new power (deoxygenation), makes him noteworthy. Since he is middleschool, he is also at least 12 years old, which means regardless of the 5yr-timelines, he is at least 7 years old in the present-timeline....therefore he and his power is confirmed to exist; regardless of when it is first manifested in whatever timeline we endup with. We should add a new power for deoxygenation to the Powers page, and we should keep him on the list of evolved humans. He is confirmed; even though there is little info on him. Had he been given a firstname, he would have more details and info specifically about him than 'David'. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 12:05 (EST)
- That's fine. He certainly doesn't need an article at this point, though. In any case, the list needs to note that he's an evolved human in a future timeline; for all we know, in the final timeline he could die before he manifests powers, or live his entire life and never manifest his power.--Hardvice (talk) 12:12, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- One thing he does give us, though, is the revealing of a new power. Even if he doesn't manifest it in whatever timeline we end up in, and it is never seen again, the power itself has been revealed as a power of evolved humans. We may find, with this multi-timeline stuff going on, and with more and more powered people showing up (with little screentime and development) that we simply need to start a new Notes Section on the Powers page, to have a quick comment documenting it and that would be all, until it becomes fully-realized and revealed in a more primary character (one that deserves their own article). I'll put one one other, and see what you think. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 12:17 (EST)
- However, the fact that he is an evolved human with a new power (deoxygenation), makes him noteworthy. Since he is middleschool, he is also at least 12 years old, which means regardless of the 5yr-timelines, he is at least 7 years old in the present-timeline....therefore he and his power is confirmed to exist; regardless of when it is first manifested in whatever timeline we endup with. We should add a new power for deoxygenation to the Powers page, and we should keep him on the list of evolved humans. He is confirmed; even though there is little info on him. Had he been given a firstname, he would have more details and info specifically about him than 'David'. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 12:05 (EST)
- Hana tells them their new identities: they will be the Cranes, from Boise, Idaho. As for the middle school boy, I doubt he merits mention anywhere but the episode article. He doesn't appear, is barely mentioned, and exists five years in the future.--Hardvice (talk) 11:56, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- If the closing credits said "mom, dad, and son" where are you guys getting the "Mr & Mrs Crane" from? While 'red-dot boy' may sound unspecific and a little silly, it is probably the most easily recognizable name for him that the majority of people would be able to associate him to. For 'deoxygenation boy' however, wouldn't 'middleschool boy from Santa Cruz' be specific enough until more is revealed later? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/1/2007 11:48 (EST)
- "Crane boy" sounds a bit like a super hero name (he should team up with Tiger Lass for a kung-fu book), but it's probably our best choice.
- I suppose we could call him "young evolved human", but that might be too vague. Heroe!(talk) 10:35, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Hopefully better than red dot boy--Bob 10:26, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- OK, the family of the evolved human boy is credited as mom, dad, and son. Not too helpful. We should probably list them under their assumed names then (Mr. and Mrs. Crane -- not sure what to call the kid.)--Hardvice (talk) 10:24, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
Oxygen boy
Ok, so is it safe to assume the boy who suffocated his middle school and the kid Mr. Bennet had are the same person? What would we call his power? Heroe!(talk) 09:47, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
Candace, DL and Molly
When Hiro asks Bennet for these people, I think he's referring to their blood samples since Sylar had already killed DL and Candace. So does that mean he also killed Molly?--Bob 11:16, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Hiro says "and they'll all be safe when we succeed". I think he's referring to the people, and just doesn't realize that they're dead. Incidentally, there's something a bit sinister about this: in his scene with Matt, Bennet discusses their arrangement as one where he gives Matt the "dangerous" ones and Matt gives him the "harmless" ones, so there's a good chance that Bennet turned D.L. and Candace at least over to Matt; they'd then be ripe for Sylar-as-Nathan to eat. As to whether Molly is also dead, I don't think we can possibly know.--Hardvice (talk) 11:33, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Remember that Future Hiro's memories come from the original Dark Future timeline, and not the one shown in the episode. In the original timeline, it may be that D.L. and Candace are still alive, Sylar never took their powers, never became President, but there is no way for us to know. Hiro doesn't realize things have changed because they changed while he was in the past, and are still cosmetically similar when he returns. In any event, he is an unreliable narrator in this episode, anything he believes may not be true any longer since he changed the past. I realize I'm complaining about this all over the place, but that's because I want to make sure people understand it. Gregorus 12:24, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Future Sylar had already killed Candace before the explosion. Future Bennet and Future Matt's arrangement are clearly due to the political divide of their time which are products after the future presidential election. --Glue 12:34, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- How do we know he killed Candace before the explosion? We don't even know how long he's been impersonating Nathan.--Hardvice (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Future Hiro said Sylar was able to regenerate from the stab, delivered just prior to the explosion, yet without Claire's regeneration (she lives past the explosion). Future Hiro actually stabbed Peter, who was disguised by Sylar using Candace's power. Yes, I am arguing by lack of imagination here (the writers could write a more complex explanation), but it seems a fairly straightforward implication. --Glue 13:12, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Except that Future Hiro remembers rescuing her after the explosion. That might have changed if there are two timelines, but I doubt he'd just have a random memory of something that didn't happen.--Hardvice (talk) 14:29, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Hmm.. think I need to rewatch the ep sometime, since I missed some of the dialogue. Damn the creators, haha. By the time we figure out any of this stuff to reach any consensus, it'll probably be ep 23 and the questions will be all be answered. I just hope the writers haven't overcomplicated the plot beyond their own ability to wind it all up. =) --Glue 16:35, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Maybe Hiro 'rescued' Sylar, disguised as Candace. --Havoc 14:56, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- Except that Future Hiro remembers rescuing her after the explosion. That might have changed if there are two timelines, but I doubt he'd just have a random memory of something that didn't happen.--Hardvice (talk) 14:29, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Future Hiro said Sylar was able to regenerate from the stab, delivered just prior to the explosion, yet without Claire's regeneration (she lives past the explosion). Future Hiro actually stabbed Peter, who was disguised by Sylar using Candace's power. Yes, I am arguing by lack of imagination here (the writers could write a more complex explanation), but it seems a fairly straightforward implication. --Glue 13:12, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- How do we know he killed Candace before the explosion? We don't even know how long he's been impersonating Nathan.--Hardvice (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- While it's certainly good to remember that Future Hiro's memories may not match the new timeline he's created, it's also not the case that they're automatically wrong. He still knew Niki and Peter, and where to find them, for example. Many events seem to have occurred the same way. In this case, I think if he hadn't been responsible for rescuing Molly, D.L., and Candace, then Mr. Bennet would have said so when Hiro asked him to contact them. "WTF they're dead and you never rescued them" is not the same as "I can't contact them because they're in hiding." So it seems likely that this is one of those cases where Future Hiro's memory jives with the revised timeline: he still rescued Candace, D.L., and Molly and turned them over to Bennet. D.L. and Candace were subsequently killed; Future Hiro doesn't know it, and if Bennet does, he's not letting on.--Hardvice (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Future Sylar had already killed Candace before the explosion. Future Bennet and Future Matt's arrangement are clearly due to the political divide of their time which are products after the future presidential election. --Glue 12:34, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- Remember that Future Hiro's memories come from the original Dark Future timeline, and not the one shown in the episode. In the original timeline, it may be that D.L. and Candace are still alive, Sylar never took their powers, never became President, but there is no way for us to know. Hiro doesn't realize things have changed because they changed while he was in the past, and are still cosmetically similar when he returns. In any event, he is an unreliable narrator in this episode, anything he believes may not be true any longer since he changed the past. I realize I'm complaining about this all over the place, but that's because I want to make sure people understand it. Gregorus 12:24, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- You guys missed the point of the utterance completely. Hiro's mentioning of Candice as one of those he had rescued is meant as proof that Sylar was telling the truth: Nathan really did turn against his own kind. He was responsible for all the repressive measures against people with special abilities. --Borowki 13:36, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
- That's a good point (for Candice to need rescuing, bad stuff needs to have been happening before Sylar ate her, meaning Nathan started it all), but it's not really what we were talking about at all. The question was whether or not Hiro knew Candice and D.L. were dead. There's really no reason he should: he doesn't know about Bennet's deal with Parkman and he doesn't know Sylar is impersonating Nathan, so as far as he's concerned, they're still "rescued".--Hardvice (talk) 13:52, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
- It's obvious that Candice wasn't killed because she was turned over by Bennett. It's against logic. The idea that Sylar could kill these people while they're in DHS custody is silly anyhow. --Borowki 06:41, 30 September 2007 (EDT)
- That's a good point (for Candice to need rescuing, bad stuff needs to have been happening before Sylar ate her, meaning Nathan started it all), but it's not really what we were talking about at all. The question was whether or not Hiro knew Candice and D.L. were dead. There's really no reason he should: he doesn't know about Bennet's deal with Parkman and he doesn't know Sylar is impersonating Nathan, so as far as he's concerned, they're still "rescued".--Hardvice (talk) 13:52, 29 September 2007 (EDT)
String Theory graph updated
Hi. Since episode 1x19 I am building a String Theory graph trying to cover all causality relationships in Heroes episodes and Graphic novels. It is available at my website. Episode 1x19 was quite easy, but 1x20 f**d all up. If anyone wants to help, please contact me. ktnxbye Fmobus 21:19, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
Oval Office
on the commentairy the actors said it wasn't from the west wing --angie 22:50, 1 May 2007 (EDT)
- The Director's Blog by Greg Beeman acknowledges that it is indeed the West Wing's Oval Office - It had been disassembled and placed in storage, so the crew had to fly it to the set and re-build it. Ultraexactzz 07:40, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
ok now I've read that part of the blog. Why did he think they would keep the West Wing set up? --angie 17:01, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
Parkman
Can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Regarding Parkman's mindreading abilities, why couldn't he read Sylar/Nathan's mind and find out he isn't actually Nathan and is in fact Sylar? Dc 22:00, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- This this is like some of the other issues with the timeline mashup above. I'd say it all falls under a number of questions that were either not addressed, or not addressed unambiguously enough to prevent confusion and dispute. What is the explanation for the Haitian -- who has, thus far, demonstrated a fairly strong moral compass (enough to be concerned more for some sense of the greater good, even if a personal one, to protect Claire and to question the authority/justice of those he works for) -- siding with the president's cause to eliminate all of his fellow evolved humans? I suppose it's possible that Parkman can only "hear" what the subject is currently thinking but doesn't let him simply access a subject's complete memory. When Parkman got Claire's location out of Bennet, he forcibly put forth the question as if to induce Bennet into thinking the answer. Unfortunately, Bennet didn't have his wits about him enough to think in Japanese that time or something. --Glue 22:23, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
- I don't think it's as simple as Bennet forgetting to think in Japanese. I think Parkman can probe even further into minds, for the simple fact that him not developing his abilities would just really suck. =P But in all seriousness, an explosion happening because of superpowers can change a man's ideals. Matt Parkman and the Haitian are simply prime examples. And, Sylar must've picked up at least one ability that could possibly avoid his mind being probed. Or he has an incredible sense of control over his thoughts. DannyP 22:59, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
- Well, the point I was raising was the difference between speculation and leaving enough clues and evidence such that certain events necessarily occurred. Future Parkman at least hints at having had some sort of major reversal from his earlier idealist outlook. The Haitian, however, has simply changed sides with no explanation (although being silent does fit his personality). I agree though, that it's pretty reasonable that Future Sylar either has some unmentioned power to shield his thoughts, although I suspect he just learned enough about Nathan to mimic his thoughts and philosophy (something he has already shown to do well even in the show's current time). --Glue 17:27, 7 May 2007 (EDT)
- The Haitian's loyalty in the presence may be primarily to Angela Petrelli. Assuming she died in the Dark Future timeline at some point, he may have transferred his loyalty to Nathan. Matt can apparently dig for information in the future, but that requires effort that he probably wasn't using on the President. --Ted C 17:33, 7 May 2007 (EDT)
- Well, the point I was raising was the difference between speculation and leaving enough clues and evidence such that certain events necessarily occurred. Future Parkman at least hints at having had some sort of major reversal from his earlier idealist outlook. The Haitian, however, has simply changed sides with no explanation (although being silent does fit his personality). I agree though, that it's pretty reasonable that Future Sylar either has some unmentioned power to shield his thoughts, although I suspect he just learned enough about Nathan to mimic his thoughts and philosophy (something he has already shown to do well even in the show's current time). --Glue 17:27, 7 May 2007 (EDT)
- I don't think it's as simple as Bennet forgetting to think in Japanese. I think Parkman can probe even further into minds, for the simple fact that him not developing his abilities would just really suck. =P But in all seriousness, an explosion happening because of superpowers can change a man's ideals. Matt Parkman and the Haitian are simply prime examples. And, Sylar must've picked up at least one ability that could possibly avoid his mind being probed. Or he has an incredible sense of control over his thoughts. DannyP 22:59, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
Summary Error
The summary for this episode states Hiro learns what he must do to stop the bomb. I don't think this is true. He learned that he will have the opportunity to kill Sylar, but in the current timeline, Peter is the one who explodes. It's unclear to me how killing Sylar will prevent Peter from going nuclear. -- Johnc 23:05, 2 May 2007 (EDT)
Haitian
Since the Haitian can cancel out all powers, wouldn't 'Nathan' have to make sure to stay away from him? I'd expect that it would be rather dangerous having someone like him on the team. Also, how would he ever convince the Haitian to work for him so loyally, if he can't even talk to him face to face?
- I was also wondering about Parkman and Nathan/Sylar. Parkman was definately in the same room as Nathan/Sylar, even when the Haitian was not around. Either Parkman and the Haitian know Nathan is Sylar and are working with him (or are being coerced to work with him), or Sylar's has some way to trick/prevent both Parkman's mind reading and the Haitian's nullification. -- Johnc 13:48, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
- It hasn't been established that the Haitian can nullify all powers — so far, just mental ones. Also, while this is also speculation, 5 years is a long time, and we can consider the amount of additional powers Sylar's gained over the years on his road to being president. It's not out of the question that someone would have the power to remain "cloaked" or otherwise hidden from the Haitian's power negation, or Parkman's mind-reading.
- Also on a tangent, while most heroes on the show have exhibited single types of powers or are metapowers (Peter and Sylar), I wouldn't be surprised if Heroes introduced some characters with divergent but complimentary powers, e.g., someone who can control all the classical elements. That's a bit far out for now, but considering what a road the show may have ahead... ;) --Torley 22:31, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
- Remember, though, that Future Haitian can be choosy about the powers he cancels--he stopped Hiro but allowed Matt to mindread in that one scene. Maybe he doesn't stop Nathan/Sylar because he doesn't think he needs to (why would you want to stop a guy from flying--and maybe he can't stop a guy from flying, since he wasn't able to do it outside the Montecito)....The thought of "metapowered" individuals is intriguing...but all we know is that Bennet told Sylar that all the EHs they'd met thus far had only one power. Even Peter and Sylar still only have one original power. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:36, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
- Technically, Peter has only one power at all times, while Sylar really does have many abilities--though the point still stands that they only have one original power. But I've said this before, so it's sort of redundant. In any case, remember, the Haitian's power CAN be overpowered. It's been theorized that Charlie's power negated the Haitian's, so perhaps the fact that Candace's power fools others into seeing an illusion canceled out the Haitian's. Or, a combination of Sylar's skill with his powers and there being so many had something to do with. Like how Matt overcame the Haitian's power, but with another dimension. DannyP 22:56, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
- Remember, though, that Future Haitian can be choosy about the powers he cancels--he stopped Hiro but allowed Matt to mindread in that one scene. Maybe he doesn't stop Nathan/Sylar because he doesn't think he needs to (why would you want to stop a guy from flying--and maybe he can't stop a guy from flying, since he wasn't able to do it outside the Montecito)....The thought of "metapowered" individuals is intriguing...but all we know is that Bennet told Sylar that all the EHs they'd met thus far had only one power. Even Peter and Sylar still only have one original power. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:36, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
- Also on a tangent, while most heroes on the show have exhibited single types of powers or are metapowers (Peter and Sylar), I wouldn't be surprised if Heroes introduced some characters with divergent but complimentary powers, e.g., someone who can control all the classical elements. That's a bit far out for now, but considering what a road the show may have ahead... ;) --Torley 22:31, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
Which Heroes are still alive?
Linderman's absence from this episode is interesting - does it have anything to do with the "Linderman act" mentioned on the news broadcast on the TV? Also, Sylar has D.L's Phasing ability in this episode. This suggests he died at the hands of Sylar at some stage in the previous 5 years.
- Well, we know Nathan, Micah, DL, and Candace are dead. Micah died in the bomb. The others have been absorbed by Sylar. Linderman, Angela Petrelli, and Ted Armstrong are unknowns. I am including Angela since she made allusions in the prior episode that she had powers, although these powers are as yet unknown.
- We know that Hiro, Claire, Bennet, Hana, and the Haitian are dead. Matt and Mohinder are probably dead from the energy released in Peter and Sylar's fight. I have a good hunch that Molly Walker is dead. When Future Hiro talks to Bennet, he tells him about D.L., Candace, and Molly Walker. The irony of it is that by the end of the episode, we learn that Sylar has both D.L. and Candace's abilities, meaning that their dead. This hints that Molly Walker is part of that dead group as well. Of course, there's a chance that this is incorrect because it's just speculation--Ice Vision 11:50, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
- We know that D.L. is dead, but we don't know that Sylar killed him. Remember, others have been able to phase, so D.L. does not own the corner market on the power. Yes, it's certainly plausible (and probable) that Sylar killed D.L., but we just can't say so with any certainty. Right now, the way it's addressed on D.L.'s page is perfect. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:09, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
- Linderman was still killed by D.L, like in "How To Stop An Exploding Man?". Everything (up to the bomb) happened like it was shown in the series, except Peter wasn't flown away before he exploded. That's how I see it anyway.--Hiroman 14:43, 8 November 2009 (EST)
- Mrs Petrelli and Linderman have a goal to save the world> is their idea as simple as inspiring fear in the NY populace to cause normies to fear the new genetic line? What wolud they gain by this unless they wanted to obtain power and saw the other specials as some kind of threat? what is the ultimate goal of Liderman's work?
- Linderman was still killed by D.L, like in "How To Stop An Exploding Man?". Everything (up to the bomb) happened like it was shown in the series, except Peter wasn't flown away before he exploded. That's how I see it anyway.--Hiroman 14:43, 8 November 2009 (EST)
- We know that D.L. is dead, but we don't know that Sylar killed him. Remember, others have been able to phase, so D.L. does not own the corner market on the power. Yes, it's certainly plausible (and probable) that Sylar killed D.L., but we just can't say so with any certainty. Right now, the way it's addressed on D.L.'s page is perfect. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:09, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
- We know that Hiro, Claire, Bennet, Hana, and the Haitian are dead. Matt and Mohinder are probably dead from the energy released in Peter and Sylar's fight. I have a good hunch that Molly Walker is dead. When Future Hiro talks to Bennet, he tells him about D.L., Candace, and Molly Walker. The irony of it is that by the end of the episode, we learn that Sylar has both D.L. and Candace's abilities, meaning that their dead. This hints that Molly Walker is part of that dead group as well. Of course, there's a chance that this is incorrect because it's just speculation--Ice Vision 11:50, 5 May 2007 (EDT)
Sylar
Future Hiro states that he could not kill Sylar because he regenerated using Claire's power. Yet he couldn't have done because Claire is still alive in the future thus he did not have the regenerating power. (note: tags needed)
- Because of Time travel, there are several multiple futures. In the particular future of that episode, Sylar had taken black-haired Claire's power. In a different alternate future (Graphic Novel:String Theory), Sylar took blond-haired Claire's power. So it really depends on which future is being discussed, as to whether or not that future's Sylar has that future's Claire-power. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 07/7/2008 10:15 (EST)
Today
November 8, 2011. Five years after the explosion. Interesting that it coincides with the release of MW3. --Boycool Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Amen. 07:36, 8 November 2011 (EST)