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Theory talk:Time travel

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Lead image

Anyone have any ideas for the lead pic for this article? Heroe(my Heroe page) 21:29, 12 February 2007 (EST) February 2007 (EST)

Power Infobox

Now that this page has power infobox, it's being listed as a power. I don't really mind, although technically it's not a power. Are there any objections? Nevermind, I guess it was taken out. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:25, 19 February 2007 (EST)

One thing that's been bugging me

So I read the page listed with the multiverse theory, and was, by far, the best detailed argument about how time-travel works.

The thing I can't understand is this: Ando was with Hiro when they first entered the Burnt Toast, and no one recognized Hiro. This goes with the viewer's glimpse of the photo without Hiro. When Hiro goes back in time, he does change history, but Ando shares the original timeline, that no one knew Hiro. When he saw the picture, he inquired about it, and realized that he had been in Midland in the past, contrary to the previous timeline where Hiro was not known. Since Ando recalls the previous timeline, does that mean that when Hiro traveled to the past, he somehow took Ando with him on the new timeline? We see he has the ability to time travel with Ando in Parasite, so is this something Hiro accidentally did? I've drawn up a bunch of timelines, tried it with different theories, but the only way it makes sense is that Hiro, when going back in time (Causing a new timeline), instantly shifted Ando from the old timeline to the new timeline (as Ando remembers the previous timeline, just like Hiro). --Bob 23:09, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

  • Ah, the old time travel paradox. Yeah, there's almost always a catch-22 whenever you do time travel. The writers (in some older CRB interviews) have been pretty coy about the whole subject. What you say makes sense, but I think it's just one of those things that we have to suspend belief and enjoy the ride. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:07, 13 April 2007 (EDT)
  • "A wizard did it." (Admin 02:33, 13 April 2007 (EDT))
  • Basically, Ando's memory didn't have to change to keep the timeline clean. There may be a "path of least resistance" effect to timeline corrections, which would explain why Peter could get away with saving Claire instead of Future Hiro being bounced back to his own time without delivering the Message. --Ted C 16:47, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Mistake?

"The self-consistency principle is often controversial due to the implications that the time traveler has no free will while traveling in the past, yet does have free will when in the present and future."

What it actually implies is that free will doesn't exist *at all*. Going by this model, every moment in what we'd call the present is in fact the past to a future observer. Similarly, every moment in the future is the past to an "even more" future observer. Since the past cannot be changed and since every moment is something's past, free will cannot exist. It's typically called the "predestination paradox".

That said, it doesn't really matter, since Heroes has already proven that it ascribes to the "multiverser" take. But I just thought it needed pointing out. (Ulicus 14:41, 27 April 2007 (EDT))

Dynamic Timeline Theory

I this interview Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite acknowledge it is a single universe like "Quantum Leap," where the changes are retroactive but the only ones who remember the differences are those involved. This suggests more of a dynamic timeline like on Frequency but is not described here. -Lөvөl 02:45, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

The Death of Hana Gitelman

Following Cause and Effect, something Hiro did after returning from the future caused Hana to die but what was it? I cannot find anywhere Hiro did anything that would affect Hana, there are several things he does that would affect Nathan and where the bomb goes off, but not Hana. -Lөvөl 02:45, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Maybe Hana doesn't die?--Ice Vision 02:48, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
  • Whenever a person moves backwards in time, it changes time. Read the multiverse theory linked on this article, it's very insightful.--Bob 03:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
    • But according to that history does not change unless the time traveler changes it. Why does Future Hana have a body when present Hana dose not? What did Hiro, Ando, anything or anyone they affected after Five Years Gone, do to change what happened to her? -Lөvөl 16:57, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Hana was the one who convinced Ted to go after the Company. It's possible that she was "supposed" to work more with Ted and Future Hiro did something to interfere with their partnership in hopes of stopping the bomb that way. Perhaps he had originally believed it was Hana who had "set up us the bomb". Then again, maybe NBC just made yet another oversight...--Cosmic AC 23:03, 19 November 2008 (EST)

A Paradox?

If Peter never destroyed new york, in the future Hiro wont have a reason to go back in time and prevent than Peter explote, isn't that a paradox? as what made Future Hiro go back in time never happened. JDeus01 00:27, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

  • It's a good question. It'll be interesting to see if they address it somehow in Season Two or whether they ignore it. (Admin 00:32, 10 August 2007 (EDT))
    • Terrific paradox. From everything Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite have said in their CBR Q&As (don't ask me for links, I have a hard time remembering which responses are in which segments), there are always problems with doing time travel, and it's one of those issues that they're just going to kind of gloss over. However, spoilers indicate (you've been warned!) that Hiro's actions in 1671 will directly affect the events of March 2007. It'll be really interesting to see. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:54, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
      • Indeed, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I'd like to think that Hiro will not be able to proceed forward in time past the explosion until he fixes the paradox. He will just keep getting bounced like when he tried to alter Charlie's destiny. It'd make for a nice cliffhanger for the end of Volume 2, imho...--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:10, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
        • Another possibility is that when he returns to the present, he runs into himself--the version that never went back to stop the explosion (cause it didn't happen for him). Actually, both of these possibilities could happen concurrantly...--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:53, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

Temporal Mechanics

  • Check out this site. He points out that in order for the person to go back in time, the future is already altered. Therefore, no matter what the person does, simply going back has changed history, thus no paradox. It's a very good theory on time travel, check it out.--Bob 01:19, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
    • Which article on that site in particular? (Admin 01:32, 10 August 2007 (EDT))
      • I think Bob is referring to the 'Uncaused cause' one, where the author essentially speculates that time travel using the Fixed time theory is impossible. The alternative theory is parallel dimensions, which escapes the problems he explains but is not considered time travel, in his opinion. I disagree with his argument, but he does admit (and so do I) that it's speculation either way.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:49, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
      • I was referring to the author's theory of the multiverser versus a fixed timeline or parallel universe theory. The multiverser is similar to a VCR head along one timeline. But the point that the author makes is that once you go back in time, you have changed history just with your existence. Where air molecules should be, you exist instead. So everything that happened in the time traveler's history does not exist anymore in the actual history (or timeline). If Hiro traveled back in time at some point (see this image), history has changed. Going forward isn't the same, since the equivalent is you being stuck in a freezer for however long you traveled forward. This page talks about causality, which would be the main point of the question. He has a good review about the Terminator movies, and how it makes sense according to his theory. Hope that helped.--Bob 02:01, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
        • But Hiro originally experienced the explosion after going forward in time. Then, he returned to just after he had left. It's not really the same thing and so the explanation doesn't exactly apply to this case. However, this explanation is relevant to what will be happening in 1671, according to the spoilers, so thanks for the reference.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:24, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
          • Actually, it does. In the "original" timeline, Hiro was gone until the explosion (according to Ando). He then jumps back. You have to not think of him "returning" per se, but "rewinding" history and starting anew from that point. History has changed from him jumping backwards. Again, according to the multiverser theory, jumping backwards changes time, even if it in a period of time "after" you jumped forward. Think of it like a VCR: if you fast forward, you're not recording over anything, because nothing occurred yet. If you rewind then start recording, you're recording over history from the traveler's perspective, thus the timeline changing. It's a matter of perspective, which is something far too complex for my total understanding, nor for the millions of viewers of the show to collectively understand enough for the writers to explain their views on it.--Bob 03:56, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
            • You are right that in the "original" timeline, Hiro is gone until the explosion (according to Ando); and when he jumps back he changes the timeline so that he isn't... However, you are leaving out that Hiro's original jump to Nov. 8th still occurs... It doesn't get written over by Hiro returning to just after he left or purposely changing what happens in the future... What happened on Nov 8th to the Hiro that went to Isaac's apartment is important, cause he still exists--even in multiverse theory. So one Hiro is now in 1617 and his previous (diverging?) self is probably somewhere he shouldn't be... whether that causes a paradox is remained to be seen. The closest analogy to this situation is this analogy (Mr. Young) provides regarding Back to the Future II, in which he describes paradoxes that occur simultaneously in both the fixed-time and multiverse theories.--MiamiVolts (talk) 04:44, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

Where is the quotes derived from and who said it?

"However, we humans do not perceive time flowing in both directions. For us, the arrow of time points "forward". We have a memory of where we have been, but no perception of what we are going to do; we can only perceive the probability of events that will occur as derived from our current conditions."

Please answer me now!!!!!!!

Time has torsion?

Events can only be altered by observers acting or using information gained well in advance of or well after their occurrence. Only the passage of time permits time to be altered. Hiro's first attempt to stop The Explosion failed miserably, resulting in the Explosion Future. Only by making a careful change after five years had passed did he succeed. Usutu beat him like a drum when he started making sixty-second jumps. As for Peter's jump, it wasn't supposed to work! The writer's strike cut the season short, so they couldn't do the containment arc. Precognition works the same way - Matt keeps painting stuff only days or even just minutes away - meaning all he can do is watch it coming.

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